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    guttervomit

    • 31

      The End of Faith Redux

      6 Nov 2006

      Got a bunch of interesting comments on Sunday’s entry about Sam Harris’ "The End of Faith":

      From cookie: Im intrigued though by Buddhism which by some way doesnt fit in the
      same template as Islam and Christianity. So far its the religion I see
      and appreciate that merely practices what you describe as morality
      without prejudice; and that doesnt attempt to force feed itself as the
      only path to salvation.

      I was listening to a Sam Harris podcast recently where he asked, as a way of pointing out the fundamental differences between certain religions, "Where are all the Tibetan Buddhist suicide bombers?"

      Martyrdom is core to Islam in a way that is just different from other religions, and we’re living in a world where these fanatical martyrs don’t just run screaming at you with swords drawn anymore. Nowadays they step into buses with C4 strapped to their stomachs, or fly 747s into office buildings. Their willingness to sacrifice themselves for Allah hasn’t dwindled over the centuries, but the weapons available have gotten a hell of a lot nastier. I mean, seriously, what happens when one of these guys gets a hold of nuke?

      From becypher: 72 virgins in this life is rather achievable than getting this 72 after
      life. Cumulatively speaking though. Why blow up yerself.

      You have to look at it in the context of the religion itself. Islam is one of the most conservative religions on the planet, and they know it. To be offered a chance at being the alpha male in one big orgy in the sky, when your women here on earth can’t even bare their ankles … well, I’d say that’s a pretty heavy incentive, don’t you?

      Dairokutenmaoh: What’s so holy with "holy war"? What’s holy in decapitating infidels?
      What’s holy in blowing yourself up? What’s holy in imposing your
      "faith" on a swordpoint? And to think they preach of a "loving and
      benevolent" God.

      One of the things we have to come to grips with is that our religions (possibly with the exception of Buddhism, although I don’t know this for a fact) have built-in defenses against non-believers. The Bible and the Koran are particularly vehement about what to do when your neighbours worship other gods. One of the justifications for the Spanish Inquisition was a statement made by St. Augustine himself, declaring that if torture were appropriate for those broke the laws of men, it was even more fitting for those who broke the laws of God. And the irony of it is, these acts of violence are holy, when viewed in the context of the religion in question.

      Check out more of Sam Harris’ articles and essays, including a particularly biting response to a Christian reader here. 

       

       

      31 Responses to “The End of Faith Redux”

      1. Mr.Clean Says:
        November 6th, 2006 at 11:57 pm

        Harris is brilliant, and has laid to paper (and monitor) the exact arguments that have been formulating in my head for many years which I have until now been unsuccessful at trying to articulate.

        For a while I thought that maybe the Catechism was a good starting point to teach children good values, and that when they were old enough you could let them out into the wild and let them make their own decisions about morailty and goodness.

        Now, I wonder. Where was the basis for my unique set of beliefs born? What guides my moral compass? While it pains me to say this I cannot say that it comes from my upbringing because I disagree with my parents about many things, religion included.

      2. spidamang Says:
        November 7th, 2006 at 10:56 pm

        Eye opening and at the same time scary. He seems to leave little room for humility. He seems to really believe that man can take care of himself when he starts thinking for himself. But then, how can you make millions of people confident enough to think for themselves?

      3. muffin Says:
        November 7th, 2006 at 11:40 pm

        well, there isn’t much or an argument here because everybody seems to be agreeing with you and harris. c’mon! isn’t there any hardcore christian fanatic in this site’s demographic?

        i guess, another aspect of why religion flourished is because of its ability to isolate its believers in a universe of its own. to restrict communication from anything that is outside this created universe.

        i believe mediums such as the internet changed all that. greater communication means that there are more and more people realizing that there’s a bigger world out there. far from the limiting confines of these traditional ideas.

        but as you said, these ideas have built in defenses which necessary for its survival. like cigarette companies, who in the past years, has been increasing their nicotine content making it harder to quit their products, fundamental religion has been more aggressive with its campaigns of fear, bigotry and intolerance. way off key to what these ideas where originally for in the first place.

      4. Raymond Says:
        December 4th, 2006 at 6:03 pm

        Like you, I have my own misgivings on religion and particularly institutionalised religious dogma. I’ve recently become aware of what is possibly the most tolerant and forgiving of all religions, Zoroastrianism. If you haven’t heard of this religion yet, you should go read up on it. Its basic tenets are that all religions basically lead to the same God/Enlightenment and that it isn’t necessary for religions to be mutually exclusive. It is the original religion that spawned Islam and Christianity (said by some to be corrupt, dogmatic forms of Zoroastrianism).

        I would venture to say that Islam and Christianity are prone to extremist thought and dogmatism, because adherents to these faiths fail to perceive a truly just and forgiving God. I’ve met a lot of religious Christians in my life and they tend to focus on the fear and terror of God as if the only reason to follow a diety is because you fear repercussions. This to me is no different from refusing to oppose Hitler or Stalin just because one is afraid that he or she would be killed or imprisoned, in other words I see this as a quite selfish reason to follow God.

        In my view a real distaste for fascism and love of goodness and freedom would require a commitment to fight tyranny regardless of how much power a tyrant would have. In no way am I suggesting that God is a tyrant, but I am suggesting that the way religious fanatics view God virtually makes him a tyrant to be feared, not loved, to be obeyed not counselled. Often the argument is often made that God should have the right to be a tyrant after all he created the world. Well I beg to differ. A truly just and all-powerful being would never use power to instill fear and spread tyranny but would rather use it with restraint, kindness and above all understanding.

      5. Raymond Says:
        December 4th, 2006 at 6:11 pm

        And just to point something out, I believe the claim that there have been no Buddhism suicide bombers is grossly misleading and tries to paint Buddhism as a holier religion than it really is. Frankly, it is just another religion and taken to extremes by fanaticised believers, it too will result in inhuman carnage and misery. In fact, I do believe Buddhist rebels in a certain Southeast Asian nation are responsible for that country’s worst terrorist atrocities. Just because zealots don’t use bombs, doesn’t mean they don’t kill people. There’s no doubt that some religions are worse at this than others, but the fact remains that religious dogmatism, extremism and exclusionist behavior are the world’s greatest enemies.

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    Guttervomit v3 went online in January, 2008. It uses Wordpress for publishing, and was built largely with Adobe Illustrator and Textmate. Logotype and navigation is set with Interstate.